Boris Johnson and the Prorogation of Parliament

Boris Johnson and the Prorogation of British Parliament 

HUGH HEWITT: Morning glory, America. Bonjour, hi, Canada. Greetings from the ReliefFactor.com studio. I am not in Florida. I don’t think Dr. Larry Arnn is in Florida. And, therefore, Dorian does not concern us, but we encourage all of our friends in Florida to be very alert.  

Dr. Arnn, are you up in Michigan? They never get storms in Michigan—just snow, right?  

LARRY ARNN: Yeah, no. We get storms. And they’re pretty, unlike in Florida, where they tear your house down.  

HEWITT: Yeah, it is a serious category four. By Tuesday, we’ll know, when we come back live. But today is The Hillsdale Dialogue, last radio hour of the week. Dr. Arnn joins me. He’s the president of Hillsdale College. For most of these, we discuss important, pressing issues or we go in the Wayback Machine.  

Next week, we get in the Wayback Machine back to Homer, as we start a series on The Iliad and The Odyssey with a new translation. Who is the translation by, Dr. Arnn?  

ARNN: Joe Sachs. S-A-C-H-S.  

HEWITT: S-A-C-H-S. And I’ll post that. I’ll tweet it out so people can be ready for us. And I’ll try and give a little advanced warning. We’re going to begin with the introduction, are we not?  

ARNN: We are. And we should mention to people that the standard, old, prevailing translation forever and ever is translated by A. L. Rowse—R-O-W-S-E. R-O-U—R-O-W-S-E, I think. And that’s significant. It’s pretty good. It’s good.  

But there’s a reading of it by a man named Anthony Heald—H-E-A-L-D—on Audible or Books on Tape. And I was driving back from Cleveland yesterday. And I listened to it for three hours. And I’ve hardly ever spent a better three hours. So that’s a way to do it too.  

HEWITT: Oh, Anthony Heald?  

ARNN: Heald. Yeah. Here’s the way it goes: First of all, it’s about a war. And there’s all these soldiers. And they’re all proud. And they’re all full of honor and also, often, cowardice. And so, Agamemnon will say to Menelaus or Achilles, whom he fights with all the time, “What a thing to say!” and stuff like that.  

And, before they can fight, you’ve got to read for about 3,000 words. Agamemnon goes walking among the troops, right? And then every commander is described, and every unit, and the place where they—so it’s a tour of ancient Greece. And it’s just hilarious and great.  

HEWITT: We will begin that next week. This week, we begin with something that is both comic and tragic, and that is the turn that British politics has taken to—one would say, the mos maiorum of Great Britain may or may not be in danger, depending on who you listen to. I’m going to read you a Financial Times editorial as we go along.  

But first, I am sure you are as absorbed in this as I am. Chuck Todd said yesterday—but for his audience, he’d cover it every day. It is a moment of high drama in the United Kingdom right now—highest drama. What do you think is going on?  

ARNN: Well, first of all, there’s a breakdown in a very stable way of governing. It’s the oldest parliamentary democracy, the mother of all parliaments. But the breakdown is between two things: It’s between the direct will of the people, as expressed in a referendum, and the majority and the minority in the Parliament. And because referendums—they’re not unknown. They’re just not common.  

And so, what happens in a case where the people vote one way, and the Parliament doesn’t do what it says? They called an election. And everybody announced out loud—all the parties, by the way—that they would abide by the results of the election. That was when they were all confident that Leave was going to lose. And now they’re not doing it.  

And it’s hard to trace accountability to exactly who is responsible for that, because Parliament is a many-headed beast. It’s a coalition government that commands, right now, a majority of one vote. And there’s been a change of leader at the head of that coalition.  

Well, there have been two, actually, because David Cameron is the one who called the referendum—resigned when it didn’t go his way—the right thing to do. Theresa May, who also supported Remain, took over, and dithered, and didn’t do—we’ve talked about that. She just did about as bad a job as you can imagine anybody doing in, admittedly, a very difficult thing.  

And so, now this whirlwind has become prime minister of Great Britain. And he’s got one idea: Our party called this referendum. It won. We’re going to do it.  

HEWITT: We’re going to do it. And it’s a great idea. By the way, the simple appeal to the basic bedrock of democracy is not a bad platform on which to fight a general election.  

ARNN: No. You can see the spirit of things, right? Since long before they beheaded Charles I in 1628 [1649], they’ve—what is it?—sovereignty has been widening in Britain. And so both sides are now saying—the many people, and it’s probably a majority in the government, and a majority of the London elite, and a majority of the professional elite all over the country—they don’t want to go.  

And those are the people who talk really great. And so they say this is a failure of democracy because Parliament is being subverted. And so, both sides are now claiming that the other one is a failure of democracy.  

HEWITT: What I read yesterday in BuzzFeed—and I have since confirmed that it is indeed in the British press as well—one of the tools that Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings, who is his Rasputin, his number-one aide, his majordomo, have put on the table is packing the House of Lords as a means of stopping any effort to delay Brexit beyond October 31.  

They’re willing to do a deal. And this is, by the way, the only way to get a good deal—is to actually have a deadline that is real. That’s why Germany’s Merkel and France’s Macron are actually dealing with Boris Johnson right now.  

But packing the House of Lords, the appointment of lifetime peers is not a new thing, Larry Arnn. I think it goes back to Melbourne and the Reform Bill, if I’m not wrong.  

ARNN: Oh, yeah. And you can settle that historical question by saying it’s a political maneuver. It’s been around as long as there’s been politics in Britain.  

HEWITT: Yes.  

ARNN: Yeah. You can read it in Shakespeare’s history plays, by the way. They fight a battle to get to be the king. And then they appoint a bunch of people who support them to the Lords.  

HEWITT: And the Lords—let’s slow it down for the Steelers fans and those folks down the road in Ann Arbor. There is a two-house system in Great Britain. It used to be that the Lords were lifetime appointments and they represented the landed estate.  

And they are no longer that. Now they are lifetime peers. But they still have a somewhat important role. It’s been diminished greatly, correct?  

ARNN: Yeah. Well, first of all, the distinction you want is between lifetime and hereditary. And so they used to be hereditary peers—that is to say, their kids got to do it too—eldest sons. Now, many of them are lifetime. In fact, all peers that have been created for 50 years or more are lifetime peers—that is to say, their kids don’t inherit the title.  

But it is actually true that all of the lifetime peers are not entitled to serve in the House of Lords. There’s a selection process. And the point about the House of Lords is it has right now, and since 1911—having to do with Winston Churchill—it cannot by itself overturn an act of the British Parliament. But it can delay.  

HEWITT: Yes.  

ARNN: And since we’re coming down to a deadline of October 31, and since, under Boris Johnson’s prorogation—that’s an interesting word we can talk about for a minute—ends on October 12, they’ve got—what is that?—19 days in the Parliament to stop this no-deal Brexit, if that’s where it stands. And that means that if they do, then it has to go to the House of Lords.  

HEWITT: And if Boris Johnson packs the House of Lords, which currently has 800 peers in it, compared to what—650 members of Parliament? There are 800 members of the House of Lords. So if Boris Johnson appoints 800 more, it’ll be hard to get a seat in there. And it’ll be hard to get heard. And it will just completely gig up the wheels completely if John Bercow— 

Because what is really at issue here—and we’ll have to talk about it after the break—is the speaker of the House has run over the banks of his authority, Larry Arnn. Do you remember any previous speaker of the House doing what Bercow is doing right now?  

ARNN: No. And so that’s a breakdown, right? There’s a lot—this idea that you can sue in a court to stop Parliament from doing something—it just turns out they do not have judicial review in Britain the way we have here.  

HEWITT: And, in fact, that has failed in Scotland this morning. It’s been postponed in Ulster. There are three lawsuits against Boris Johnson’s prorogation, which we are going to define for you when we return.  

Don’t go anywhere, America. Only on the Hugh Hewitt Hillsdale Dialogue with Dr. Larry Arnn will you actually understand what’s going on in Great Britain. For everything Hillsdale, go to Hillsdale.edu. For all of our conversations past, present, and future, go to HughforHillsdale.com. We’ll be right back.  

[MUSIC PLAYING]  

Welcome back, America. It’s Hugh Hewitt. Friday means The Hillsdale Dialogue on The Hugh Hewitt Show with Dr. Larry Arnn or another member of the faculty or staff at Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdale collected at Hillsdale.edu.  

Dr. Arnn, for many years, part of the official biography team under Martin Gilbert in Great Britain. And then he assumed control of that when Professor Gilbert passed. And all of the Churchill documents are now at Hillsdale College. And Dr. Arnn is himself married to an Englishwoman, who I hope believes is made a peer. I nominated her via Twitter for peerage in the House. Is Penny still a British citizen?  

ARNN: She is.  

HEWITT: All right. Then I’m definitely into getting Boris Johnson to appoint Penny to the House of Lords, because then she can finally order you to be quiet. Let me, however, go to prorogation, which I mispronounced all week long until Jim Talent corrected me off air. I got it right in time before you corrected me on air.  

ARNN: That’s exactly right.  

HEWITT: Yeah. Tell people about prorogation.  

ARNN: So in Britain they have—remember, Parliament is very old. And that means that—its early days, there were hardly any elections, and not many people voted when the elections did come. But in modern Britain, Parliaments—there’s a law that says that they last five years or not more than five years.  

And, before an election, when the queen, on the advice of the prime minister, calls an election—and there are gray areas in all of this, by the way, because, let’s say, the Parliament seizes up, and they can’t elect a leader. The power to call an election is actually in the queen.  

And so she could step in. She’d be very reluctant to do it. But she could step in, and it would be perfectly legal for her to do what they do before an election, which is called dissolve a Parliament. And by law right now, that’s done 25 days before an election.  

And then they have a 25-day campaign. And, by the way, members of Parliament are not allowed to enter the Palace of Westminster during those 25 days, although they’re still paid. And so that’s dissolving.  

But then they love to mark the five-year term of a Parliament into bits—into annual bits, basically. They love to stop, usually in August, around the first, usually. And they love to get back together in September. And when they get back together, the queen comes and gives the royal address from the throne in the House of Lords, where the annual platform of the government is announced in a speech read by the queen.  

Now, the process of going for this annual recess—and it doesn’t necessarily have to be annual—is called prorogation. And that word—rogation is actually a really ancient, a very old word, that begins meaning “inquire” or “request.” And pro means “before,” right?  

HEWITT: Yes.  

ARNN: And it ends up now meaning “command.” And it’s only meant that for about 400 years.  

HEWITT: Only.  

ARNN: Yeah. So that’s an innovation. It’s like New College, Oxford, right? It’s only 700 years old. So prorogation is really a common event. And it usually happens about this time of the year.  

HEWITT: And it’s been the longest Parliament without one in modern times. It’s gone more than 400 days since the queen’s speech. And we’ve had two prime ministers. And it goes back to the beginning of the May government.  

And it usually happens when you get a new prime minister. The queen comes and gives the new prime minister a speech. So, while Boris Johnson may have mixed motives for announcing a prorogation, it is not at all radical to have done so.  

ARNN: The complaint one can make about it is, one, there shouldn’t be one at all given the urgency of these things. And by the way, I don’t think Parliament’s going to be able to do anything about it, right?  

HEWITT: Nope.  

ARNN: They’re divided up so much. Or, two, this is longer than normal. And it might be as much as two weeks longer. But they’re always two weeks or more because they go home.  

And then the government—that is to say, the members of the House of Commons most senior, who have the ministerial positions—and remember, they are creatures of the House of Commons. They’re going to come back in. October 17, I think, is the date.  

HEWITT: And that’s when Boris needs to call an election and send them home for 25 more days. And then they’ll be out.  

ARNN: That’s right.  

HEWITT: Dr. Larry Arnn and I will be right back to talk about what’s really going on in Great Britain when we return to the Hillsdale Dialogue. Everything Hillsdale at Hillsdale.edu.  

[MUSIC PLAYING]  

Welcome back, America. It’s Hugh Hewitt. The Hillsdale Dialogue is under way, the last radio hour of the week. All things Hillsdale, including amazing video courses on the Constitution, on Churchill, on the Progressive movement—they are all available for your downloading and listening pleasure at Hillsdale.edu, where you can also sign up for the free—I emphasize free—monthly speech digest, Imprimis, which will arrive in your mailbox—old-fashioned snail mail—once a month. And all of the conversations that I’ve been having with my guest, Dr. Larry Arnn, or one of his colleagues about matters large and lasting going back to 2013 are collected at HughforHillsdale.com for your binge-listening pleasure.  

Dr. Arnn, I just tweeted out, “Memo to Boris Johnson. When you create new peers, please consider the first lady of Hillsdale College, Penny Arnn, a subject of the queen, resident in Michigan, but is the spouse of the president of the custodian of Churchill’s papers, a perfect peer and bridge-builder to the US.”  

ARNN: Oh, wow. My wife will secretly love that idea but also be embarrassed by it.  

HEWITT: Baroness Arnn. Would she be Baroness Arnn?  

ARNN: Yeah, I guess so. And then I would be sir.  

HEWITT: Oh, that’s unfortunate.  

ARNN: Yeah, that’s a problem.  

HEWITT: That’s a byproduct. But now, tell me, what would she baroness of? Where is her hometown?  

ARNN: Well, they don’t really appoint them anymore.  

HEWITT: Oh. She’s a baroness without portfolio?  

ARNN: Well, they just sort of use her last name.  

HEWITT: Baroness Arnn?  

ARNN: Yeah.  

HEWITT: I am all for this. And, if you’re going to throw 400 peers in there, you might as well have the first lady. You are the—Hillsdale College is the custodian of the Churchill papers. And I believe you’re even done.  

ARNN: Well, we’re the custodian of Martin Gilbert’s papers— 

HEWITT: That’s what I meant.  

ARNN: —which include a photocopy of just about everything in the Churchill archives. The actual custodian is the Churchill Archive Center at Churchill College, Cambridge, run by a really great guy named Alan Packwood, who’s coming to Hillsdale College in November. And so, he’s got all of the originals.  

And we’ve got more than that, too, because Martin Gilbert, and Randolph Churchill before him, researched Churchill for what?—1961 until Martin Gilbert in 2012, when he was incapacitated. And I helped do that, too. And so we just went all over the place—all over the world, even—looking for papers.  

And so, yeah, we’ve got a lot of—we’ve got one of the best Churchill archives in the world. But it’s not full of—well, there are a fair number of original source documents that are very valuable. And those we keep in locked cases.  

HEWITT: Have you finished the publication of all the papers?  

ARNN: Well, it’s a sore spot.  

[LAUGHTER]  

HEWITT: Oh, good. Oh, good.  

ARNN: I’ve been saying for a month that we finished it when I finished the preface. And then darned if I didn’t get the acknowledgments to write.  

HEWITT: Oh, oh, oh.  

ARNN: I forgot. And that’s kind of hard, because there’s a lot of people to thank. And the index is nearly complete. And so it’s time for me to finish that dang thing. And if I don’t finish it on Saturday, I’ll be disgraced.  

HEWITT: OK. So by this time next week, it will be complete.  

ARNN: Yes.  

HEWITT: Now, Dr. Arnn, I still believe in Baroness Arnn. And so please pass that on.  

I want to play for you Jacob Rees-Mogg, who is my favorite member of Parliament. He is now the leader of the House of Commons. Was Churchill ever the leader of the House of Commons?  

ARNN: Yeah, briefly when Eden was sick.  

HEWITT: OK. So he has served in this position. He served in, I thought, every member—he was chancellor of the exchequer. He was secretary for Ireland. He was home secretary. He was lord of the admiralty. Was there anything he didn’t do?  

ARNN: Well, people like to say the only big job he never got was foreign secretary. But the truth is, when Eden was sick in 1953, Churchill did that job for several months. But actually, now that I think of it, there was another such occasion when Eden was sick during the Second World War. So he did that too.  

HEWITT: All right. So one of the people in one of the jobs that Churchill held is a fellow named Jacob Rees-Mogg, who is an old-school Catholic and an old-school Brit. And he was on the BBC yesterday being pestered about the claims by Bercow and others—Bercow being the blabbermouth speaker of the House. And Jacob Rees-Mogg responds this way:  

JACOB REES-MOGG: The people who are banging on about no-deal and the sort of candy floss of outrage that we’ve had over the last 24 hours—which, to go back to our introduction, I think is almost entirely confected. It’s from people who never wanted to leave the European Union.  

And you must bear in mind that this is the greatest period of anger for them, or of confected anger. Because after the 31st of October, we will have left. And this is the last time that they have available to try and thwart the 17.4 million people who voted to leave.  

SPEAKER 1: That’s a pretty bleak assessment of your colleagues, isn’t it? I mean, we have Philip Hammond, former chancellor of the exchequer— 

REES-MOGG: Never wanted to leave and obstructed— 

SPEAKER 1: Never wanted to leave. But nonetheless, look at the sorts of things he is saying—constitutional outrage, profoundly undemocratic. Dominic Grieve—deeply questionable, frankly outrageous. Michael Heseltine—constitutional outrage. John Bercow, the speaker of the House of Commons. Well, I could go on. You know the list as well as I do.  

REES-MOGG: Let’s deal with Lord Heseltine and the speaker, because what they have to say is, of course, interesting. Lord Heseltine, as deputy prime minister, was party to a 19-day suspension of Parliament prior to the 1997 general election. So it wasn’t constitutional outrage then. It is now. I think that’s confected anger.  

Mr. Speaker is interesting, because the speaker, by convention and longstanding tradition, has no tongue with which to speak or eyes with which to see other than as directed by the House. What he said yesterday was not directed by the House, and therefore must be said in a personal capacity, not as Mr. Speaker.  

SPEAKER 1: Was it—I was going to use the word illegal—not the appropriate word. But was it improper?  

REES-MOGG: It was the most constitutionally improper thing that happened yesterday.  

HEWITT: Dr. Arnn, what do you make of that?  

ARNN: First of all, the most constitutionally questionable thing that happened yesterday—there were a lot of them.  

[LAUGHTER]  

HEWITT: I know, but he’s putting Speaker Bercow at the top.  

ARNN: Yeah. So, first of all, isn’t that guy great?  

HEWITT: Banging on about the “candy floss of outrage,” “confected anger”—meaning this is all the children of the House.  

ARNN: Yeah. And remember, Michael Heseltine’s distinguished career includes helping to bring down Margaret Thatcher.  

HEWITT: Yes.  

ARNN: And that guy, he’s an Oxbridge guy and really pretty, nice blond hair. He’s the new parliamentarian. He’s old now. But we’ve had the new parliamentarians for a long time. And so, yeah, Jacob Rees-Mogg, what a blessing. And what a blessing that among the direct and resolute things that Boris Johnson has done, putting him in there is one of them.  

HEWITT: Yes.  

ARNN: Because he’s so clear. And he’s so effective. And he’s so certain in himself. And then darned if he doesn’t practice the Catholic faith devoutly.  

HEWITT: And he is unflappable.  

ARNN: What kind of crazy guy is that?  

HEWITT: And he pulled out of nowhere the quote about the speaker, which I believe dates to the 1640s. Here’s a little bit more of— 

ARNN: That was said to Charles I.  

HEWITT: There you go.  

ARNN: And Charles I had said, Where are those guys? I want to cut their heads off.  

[LAUGHTER]  

HEWITT: OK. Here’s cut number two of Jacob Rees-Mogg:  

SPEAKER 1: Nicola Sturgeon has said this is a dark day for democracy. I mean, there is a clear pattern. OK?  

REES-MOGG: Nicola Sturgeon would, wouldn’t she? Nicola Sturgeon is the leader of a separatist movement within this country who wants to break up the United Kingdom. You would expect her, if the government had said we would celebrate Christmas Day on the 25th of December, Nicola Sturgeon would have been in a state of outrage. That’s her default position.  

HEWITT: So, Arnn, geez, it’s wonderful the way he dismisses, in the right way, those people who ought to be dismissed for being predictable in their outrage.  

ARNN: Yeah. And not quite dismissed—explained.  

HEWITT: Yes.  

ARNN: See, the thing is, to say that this is anti-democratic is to say that the referendum is not as important as our reading of the mechanisms of Parliament. And the most you can say about what Boris Johnson has done is that it’s longer than normal, right? But it’s not infinitely longer. It’s ten days longer, or something like that. And the other thing is, if he’d been as mean as I thought he might be, he might have prorogued Parliament until after October 31.  

HEWITT: And then you would have a genuine argument about what he’s up to. Right now, he’s just—he’s giving himself time to negotiate seriously with Britain’s biggest partners, France and Germany. And the idiots who are Remainers aren’t really objecting because of what he’s doing. They’re objecting because he might succeed. They’re not worried that he’s going to fail. They’re worried he’s going to succeed.  

ARNN: Yeah. And see, another thing is, to do that—because he hinted that he might do that, till after October 31. But he’s calling them back because he hopes to give them something to vote on.  

HEWITT: Yeah. Now, there is a responsible critic. Robert Shrimsley is the equivalent of Gerard Baker, the editorial director of The Financial Times. And he writes today that “[s]ometimes it is the cleverest wheezes that come back to haunt you.” I don’t even know what that means.  

But he went on to say, “Among Mr. Johnson’s allies are those—his chief strategist Dominic Cummings, for example—who take a revolutionary approach to politics, yearning to refashion the old institutions of state. Rather more of Team Johnson, though, including the prime minister himself, believe in those institutions. Once the fight is won, they imagine normal political service will resume.  

“Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the House, insists that the British Constitution ‘can bend to a passing storm.’ This may be a fond hope. Parliamentary democracy has been irrevocably altered by the Brexit battle, he says, however. Politics has become so polarized that the reaction is largely divided along Leave and Remain lines.”  

Do you agree with that—we have a minute to the break, Dr. Arnn—that there’s no going back now?  

ARNN: Yeah. Well, I guess he thinks they’re more polarized than they were in the English Civil War.  

[LAUGHTER]  

HEWITT: That’s what happens when you have a country with a 2,000-year-old history, right?  

ARNN: That’s silly. And look, this is fundamental, right? And that means it’s revolutionary. In other words, they’ve used the word democracy. What’s better democracy? Is it abiding the referendum, doing what it says, or is it abiding the strict forms of Parliament that Johnson is said to have violated? But the larger question is, what is the actual popular accountability in any country of the European Parliament?  

HEWITT: Well said. When we come back from break, we’re going to take that up, because that is the rub. Dr. Larry Arnn is my guest. All things Hillsdale are at Hillsdale.edu.  

[MUSIC PLAYING]  

Welcome back, America. It’s Hugh Hewitt. Dr. Larry Arnn is my guest. The best criticism of Boris Johnson has come from the editorial director of The Financial Times, who writes, “Conflict between the legislature and the executive is the essence of parliament. What is unusual is the extent of the indifference both sides have shown to convention.  

“With Conservative rebels unwilling to countenance voting down their own government, anti-no-dealers sought other paths. They have seized control of the Commons’ timetable, aided by an activist speaker, overturning conventions apparently to assist the struggle. These breaches matter less. A government with a solid majority would not be stopped in this way.  

“But Mr. Johnson has now responded in a far more heavy-handed manner, using prorogation—the normal suspension between sessions—to deny opponents up to five weeks of time. Curtailing a tiresome Parliament is a serious escalation of the constitutional warfare. The right response for a government unable to secure its key policy is an election.”  

He concludes, “Sometimes breaking a code can have greater consequences than breaking a rule.” What do you think of that critique, Dr. Arnn?  

ARNN: Well, the trouble with that is that there are two codes here. And they’re at odds with each other, because this party, the Conservative Party, hosted the reformation. And it’s worth mentioning, in 2014 David Cameron did exactly the same thing about Scottish independence. And the Scottish people voted in 2014, 55-45, to remain with United Kingdom.  

HEWITT: Why does it matter that the Tories held the referendum? Why is that the key?  

ARNN: Because more than any other party—all of the parties, by the way, during the campaign for Leave or Remain endorsed the results of the election in advance. We will do what the people say about this, right? But the Conservative Party is the one that called it, right? And so you can say, If you don’t have a governing majority anymore, you should quit. And that’s only a counsel of prudence, right?  

When Margaret Thatcher came to power, what she did was she roped—she hogtied James Callahan, the Labor leader, because he kept waiting for the polls to get better. And he ran out of time. And there was a month when he just really had to do it. And it wasn’t ready, right?  

Well, we’re not at that time for this government. And he put it off as long as he could. And so that’s common practice. And how could it not be, by the way? Because one of the things you get, if you get a majority in the House of Commons and form a government, is the timing of the next election. So he can do that when he wants to. And that means, as you said earlier, he can if he wants to.  

They come back. They start a bill. He could go ask the queen to dissolve now, not prorogue, dissolve the government and hold an election. And that takes 25 days. And the big issue in that election would be what happened on October 31.  

HEWITT: And he would say, we implemented your platform. I believe Conservative Tories who opposed prorogation or the new election would be wiped out in the listing, right? Don’t they have to be nominated by local councils?  

ARNN: Yeah. And it’s hard to get them all deselected, because who’s going to do it? But there would be a lot of challenges. And I would bet that there would be some that would be successful.  

And you’ve got to ask yourself—the Conservative Party—what’s better in the abstract, and forgetting the froth and turmoil, which is hard to forget right now, what’s better in the abstract? To go to the people and say, you voted 52-48 to get out of the European Union. And we called for the vote, and we kept faith, and we’re out, right?  

And when they say 52-48, the numbers were much higher among Conservative voters, right? They voted north of 60%. I think even way north, but I’m not sure. So the point is, what’s the better argument—that or this was just such a mess, and we couldn’t get it done?  

HEWITT: And meanwhile, the shadow chancellor has compared Boris Johnson to Hitler. And Jeremy Corbyn has encouraged the shutdown of ten cities in a replay of the poll tax riots of the 1990s. What do you make of the meltdown of the Labor Party?  

ARNN: Well, first of all, they’ve used Hitler. And they’re not going to go to Stalin, because they like him rather better.  

[LAUGHTER]  

So they’re out of comparisons now.  

HEWITT: They’re done.  

ARNN: The devil himself. I doubt if many of them believe in God, right? And therefore, it’s not the devil.  

HEWITT: The devil can’t be— 

[LAUGHTER]  

Well, I’m closing off. Would you please go over and talk to Baroness Arnn and tell her that I’ve begun my grassroots campaign and that she must be prepared to get on a plane to London to— 

ARNN: I’m going to make her a cappuccino and take it to her upstairs and announce her ascension.  

HEWITT: Yeah. It’s not a done deal, but I think Boris Johnson does listen to our show. So there is a good chance that he will be making Baroness Arnn. And then you will be sir? That is an unfortunate byproduct. Is that the case?  

ARNN: Yeah. But the consolation you’ll have is that’s kind of weak, isn’t it?  

HEWITT: It is, compared to a baroness. You’ll be known as the husband of Baroness Arnn. That’s what I like.  

Dr. Larry Arnn of Hillsdale College, thank you. We will have a result on whether or not they stop prorogation next week. And we’re beginning Homer. Joseph Sachs—S-A-C-H-S. Go get his new edition. We’re beginning Homer next week on The Hillsdale Dialogue.  

Thank you, Dr. Arnn. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Generalissimo. Have a great Labor Day weekend. Stay safe, Florida. I’ll be back on Tuesday with the next Hugh Hewitt Show.